Right now we’re receiving a fair bit of email relating to the cloudy haze and appearance of porcelain tiles, especially those sourced from countries like China. Here’s one of the latest:
Question: “We have had porcelain tiles laid and there is a very distinctive cloudy appearance all over the tiles. We have tried many tile shops and tried their residue removers but with no luck. We have had a tile company come and look at our tiles and tried their solution but still no luck. We’re beginning to wonder if the tiles are faulty as we purchased them from a Chinese warehouse. Please can you help as very disappointed with them?”
Our Answer: “Hi, sorry to say that this sounds like yet another example of what is
becoming a classic problem with imported modern porcelain from certain sources. The distinctive cloudy appearance you report, is most like a grout haze.
This type of porcelain tile can have many microscopic holes (like tiny gas
bubbles – think of the holes in a loaf of bread) in the body. The polishing process removes a fine layer of the tile’s surface, just as using sand paper on wood does. This process can take the tops off some of those holes, thus exposing them, we cannot see them too easily as they are so small.
However, the grout is smeared all over the surface and some of the liquid containing cement, water, polymers and pigments) can be forced into these holes any sand in the grout would be too big). When the tiles are washed to remove the surplus grout, it can be very difficult to remove the coloured ‘grout water’ from those tiny holes.
So, it remains there and is allowed to dry. There are so many of them that when you look at the tile they all appear to merge into one – like pixels in a TV image giving an all-over cloudy or hazy appearance.
These tiles would have benefited from sealing prior to grouting but there are a number of things you can try. Given that you have tried several cleaners already, I am going to assume you have tried a proprietary grout haze remover (acid based) so I would try one other thing, before moving on to a last-chance, combination approach.
First I would try MicroscrubTM, this is a micro-abrasive cream cleaner. The abrasive is derived from calcite and is soft enough so as not to damage the tiles, but it might just provide enough gentle abrasion to remove some of the grout. It also contains nanotechnology which simply means it can get into some of the micro pores – so worth a try.
If that fails, go for the combined approach:
First apply a solvent based stripper, neat spread over the affected area and leave for 30 to 40 minutes, Then, without removing the solvent, now add to the floor, some diluted grout haze/cement cleaner, (make sure it is based on phosphoric acid or similar and not HCL), leave the two chemicals for another few minutes (the first product is attempting to break down any polymers present, this takes time, once it has done this there is more chance that an acid can now work on any cement present).
At this point, add some MicroscrubTM – just a couple of blobs, mix it into the solution and leave again for a few more minutes (the nano particles in the product help to allow the chemicals to ‘go deeper’). Don’t worry about the acid wanting to react with the calcium in the MicroscrubTM, by now the acid cleaner will be mostly spent, and it’s job done (this is why we wait until the end to add the MicroscrubTM). Now scrub, with a white nylon pad and really try to work the mixture into the tile. Clean up the slurry and rinse well with clean water.
I hope this improves the situation, more often than not it does, but there are some situations that cannot be saved; sometimes it is not so much the grout haze, but a waxy coating (a very stubborn one) that gives this appearance (the above procedure may well help with that anyway). Other times there can be a polishing fault in the tile, in that the tile has not been correctly finished at the factory – this cannot easily be rectified.
I hope this has been helpful. If you have no joy, perhaps you could send us a picture?
Copyright Ian Taylor and The Tile and Stone Blog.co.uk, 2013. See copyright notice above.
I have porcelain dark tiles, and as soon as I finish wasdhing them, they look worse than before – regretting!!!
i have a problem with my black bathroom tiles, they have gradually turned from black to light gray in the shower, at first it looks like really bad lime scale. but i can asure you i have tried every type of cleaner on the market, the tiles that dont get wet are fine,as are the white tiles along side them is this tile haze or are they faulty
Would like to get some advice on polished porcelain tiles. Do you remove the wax firt, then seal before you grout? Have not heard too many good things about polished porcelain tiles. Will be laying 90sq metres.
Hi Karen,
Do you remove the wax first then seal before grouting? – some say yes some, some say leave the wax on, to prevent grout staining, then remove the wax after the grout has cured, then seal.
Personally I think it depends. I must say that I keep repeating the fact that sealers are not always required on porcelain, it depends on the porcelain, however, most polished porcelain with wax on it comes from a particular region of the world and most of them, at least in so far as I have experienced them, usually require sealing.
Having established that your porcelain needs sealing, you cannot seal it with the wax on. However, sometimes the wax provides a good ‘pre-grouting sealer’ as it has formed a barrier between the tile and the wet grout. In these cases I would leave the wax, then grout, then seal later as described above (that way you seal the grout also). However, I have seen some tiles where the wax is enough to prevent the sealer getting in but not enough to protect the tile from staining during grouting, I have even see a tile where the wax itself stained.
SO, I would take a spare tile, mix up some grout and spread it on that tile before you start, let it dry then try removing it – this will tell you if you are going to have any problems. If the wax keeps the tile clean – go ahead and grout with the wax on. If it stains, then thoroughly strip the wax, then seal ( I recommend something like Ultra Solv by Aqua Mix) then grout, and when the grout is cured you may seal again, this time mainly for the benefit of the grout.
Hope that helps
Ian
We have a new home. Our builder has had the tile company out due to voids under the tile which products a hollow sound. The compnay has replaced 6 and now have 11 more. The company states that up to 85% of the tile can have a void and it is common. What are your thoughts?
Hi Debbie,
I am not sure of the standards and codes of practice that may apply in the US, but here in the UK and other countries, the guidelines call for as near as possible 100% coverage on floor tiles. Might be worth you contacting the Tile Council of America for their views. I would certainly question “up to 85% of the tile can have a void” – that is a ridiculous statement if, it is referring to floor tiles – it would be less of an issue on a wall (I am assuming your tiles are floor tiles?). He may be more accurate when he says it is very common – but that does not make it OK.
Tile adhesive companies, have gone to great lengths making thin bed, pourable adhesives in an attempt to make it easier to achieve a full-bed, tool designers have kept improving the notches on trowels for the same reason. Most manufacturers (of tiles and setting materials) advocate lifting the occasional tile as work progresses to check for full coverage. They also advocate ‘back-buttering’ on all larger format tiles and many natural stone materials to ensure proper contact is made by the adhesive and that no voids are left.
Apart from sounding hollow, the voids offer no support to tiles, so the tile, which is strong when properly bedded to the floor, is vulnerable over a void – drop a heavy chair-leg over a void with any force and the point-loading can be high – it has the same effect as karate-chopping a slate that is suspended over two bricks. Also, if the tiles have as little as 15% of their back surface bonded to the sub-floor as he claims is acceptable, then it makes for a potentially very weak bond – as a result it will stand up to far less movement than a properly installed tiled could cope with.
So, unless the tiles are in a decorative setting only (i.e. a kitchen splash back that is not going to get wet like a shower, or take any wear like a floor) then I would say you had every right to complain and demand the affected tiles are taken up and fixed properly, in accordance with the recommendations.
Hope that helps
Ian
Hi
I have a similar problem resulting from the grouting of porcelain floors. I left the grout on for too long before removing and had to use some pretty heavy handed methods to remove it as it was black grout so dried rock solid. I ended up using heavy grade sandpaper and in some areas I appear to have scratched the surface of the porcelain tiles. There are quite a few tiles affected so replacing them is not really an option. Can you suggest any method that may help return the shine to the tiles?
Thanks for your help
Regards
Marc
Hi Marc,
This is a problem I am afraid. I am assuming that the tiles were polished porcelain? In theory, it is possible to polish porcelain in situ, using the appropriate equipment and powders – not a DIY job I’m afraid and could be expensive. Are you based in the UK? – if so let me know and I will put you in touch with someone who can talk to you in more detail.
Ian
Hi i just moved into an new house and the polished porcelin tiles look all marked underneathe tile ,but not all the tiles are the same ,we have had 2 diffrent company,s out to try and clean them ,plus to top it all off we cant seem to get the wax off the tiles and i have floor to ceiling tiles ,please help me as i am hating them at the moment and wish i had of getting some thing diffrent .
Hi Cath,
Not quite sure what tou mean when you say marked underneath? – I think you mean there are marks visible just below the surface? If so, are the marks in a kind of chequer board-pattern or grid? do they mirror the pattern on the back of the tiles? If so then you may have a real problem that ought to be refered back to the tile manufacturer.
Often tiles like these have a dusty white coating on the back, this is a release agent – a type of clay that ‘fires’ at a different temperature to both the tile and the ceramic kiln rollers – to stop the tile from fusing to the kiln as it is fired, sometimes due to the fast nature of production, and the speed with which the tiles are packed as soon as they come out of the kiln, this clay dust can be deposited from the back, onto the face of the next tile in the box. Sometimes it is just a dust and will brush off, in some situations though as things are cooling it it seems it can fuse to the face of the next tile. In other situations, there may be no dust, but the pattern of the back of one tile seems to be imprninted ‘in’ the surface of the next tile in the box. If this has happened – it is a faulty tile clear and simple and I would call the company who sold the tiles and seek their assistance as the tiles would need replacing.
With regard to the wax – again there are different types, some wipe of with a cloth, others need an alkaline cleaner and others need a solvent – only trial an error can tell, but again, there are some factory-applied wax-type coatings that have proved incredibly difficult, if not impossible to remove. It is also possible that the marks are from the still-hot tiles being stacked against each other while the ‘wax coating’ was still setting, I am speculating a bit here but the point is there could be a number of reasons for the marks and it could be combined with the wax, you may find that if you can remove he wax, the marks go too.
Try products like Strip-it (stripper) and Xtreme Clean (high alkaline) and also try a micro-abrasive like Micro Scrub.
You appear to be in Australia so I suggest you contact http://www.aqua-seal.com.au they have these products and also they will be able to give you advice over the telephone.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian
Im just about to put some Topps Tiles – Brussells Porcelain (highly polished) 60cm X 60cm on to my kitchen floor, just have afew questions _
1- do they scracth/loose the high glossed polish easily some sites say polished porcelain tiles loose thier shine/scratch within a couple of days of being laid?
2 – do they need to be sealed -if yes what is best sealer?
3 – Once sealed will this retain the polished surface?
4 -how often will they need to be resealed?
5 -what is best product to clean tile with?
6 – is their wax on the surface that needs to be removed?
7 – is therea better alternative ?
Thanks
David
Hi David, these are great questions, and I may use them as a basis of a future post if you have no objection, I will try to deal with them in order:
1- do they scracth/loose the high glossed polish easily some sites say polished porcelain tiles loose thier shine/scratch within a couple of days of being laid?
[Ian’s Answer] Yes, of course they can scratch, so can any flooring material you care to think of. Diamond, the hardest, natural surface know to man, will scratch another diamond. Although most porcelain is extremely hard, hard materials such as tungsten-carbide will scratch it – (otherwise we could not cut them without a diamond wet saw) but also many naturally occuring minerals like quartz (commonely found in grit and soil ) can scratch porcelain. Porcelains also vary in quality these days, some are really tough, others less so but most would be more resistent to scratching than say polished marble, and about the same as polished granite. Use a door mat both inside and out to elimiate as much grit as possible – grit is the floor’s #1 enemy
2 – do they need to be sealed -if yes what is best sealer?
[Ian’s Answer] – That is the billion dollar question – answer is: ‘Depends on the porcelain” – sorry, that is the accurate answer. My gut feeling is that, due to a number of circumstances, both economic and technical, your porcelain is more likely to be in need of sealing than not, but I cannotbe sure. Do some testing, water drops, oil, even a permanant marker pen – if they leave marks, then sealing will provide a benefit.
3 – Once sealed will this retain the polished surface?
[Ian’s Answer] – Basically, no – the types of sealers we are talking about are impregnating sealers – meant to sit below the surface – in the case of porcelain though, they are really just temprarily occupying the micro pores in the surface – so they offer no protection to the actual surface itself, they just sit in the holes and prevent unwated contaminants from getting a hold in the holes instead.
If you were to put a coating sealer on then that is different, but there are not many sealers designed for use on top of polished porcelain, the few that are, in my opinion, look cheap and plasticky and are impossible to maintain effectively for the general house and home.
4 -how often will they need to be resealed?
[Ian’s Answer] – depends on the tile (how much sealer is needed), the cleaning regime (harsh cleaning regimes and chemicals can quickly degrade a sealer), and on the traffic and use conditions. But anywhere from a few weeks to several years between applications
5 -what is best product to clean tile with?
[Ian’s Answer] – brush/sweep with soft brush or better still swiffer type dry mop, vacuum if necesasry but be wary of trapping grit (scratching risk), routine ‘wet’ cleaning – use a mild, neutral soapy detergent. For deeper cleaning (and with a well maintained polished porcelain, deep cleaning will be mainly for the benfit of the grout) use a high alkeline cleaner designed for tiles and stone.
6 – is their wax on the surface that needs to be removed?
[Ian’s Answer] – Again, it depends on the porcelain, but it is very common these days, espcially on large format, polished tiles, even more so if they are from countries like China – so my guess would be that yours are likely to have a transit wax on them.
7 – is therea better alternative ?
[Ian’s Answer] – although I may have not given you the answers you would like, there are are not many alternaitves that I can think of that beat the overall performance of good porcelain, for example although yes, the do scratch, they will scratch less readily than virtually any other surface (save for carpet). The truth is all floors will scratch and wear but a good porcelain is pretty resilient.
Hope that helps
Ian
Hi Ian,
Bought porcelain tiles for floor and walls. Asked tiler and store if needed removal of wax ( i couldn’t see any) and if need sealing. they said the floor tile is presealed with a wax layer on top for transport, and to reseal after grouting. Wall tiles said did not need to do anything.
Took into a topps store and they said there is no wax on them.
The tiler finished grouting today and after using wet sponge to remove excess grout, there are hazy marks all over both wall and floor tiles. I’m guessing this is the wax that is showing up now that grout and water have touched it.
Question is now everything is grouted what do i do? how do i remove the wax? do i need to seal the grout first before trying to remove the wax?
also what would be the best products to do the job. and in what order?
many thanks for your help.
Helen
Hi Helen,
Sorry to hear this, I have heard this story so often it is really quite sad that the industry can’t get to grips with it.
It could be a wax residue left on the tiles, it could also be a grout haze, or it could be a partially removed factory-applied sealer, it could even be a combination of any of those. Not to criticise the tiler or Topps – but sometimes people hear about one situation and think that all porcelain is like that (in other words the Tiler, with all respect to him, may (and I only say may) think that all porcelain has a transit wax, equally the person you spoke to at Topps, may not be completely accurate either – it all depends on his/her experience and what he/she has been told. In my experience, it is often the case that the people both selling and installing the tile, do not know for sure wheather the tile is factory-sealed, waxed or neither.
There are so many possible scenarios here that it is difficult to advise, but if there was a trnasit wax (it is only there to stop tiles scratching each other in the boxes during transit) then that should have been removed before grouting, to allow a sealer, if one was required (and it is not always required). Some Tilers leave the wax on as a kind of grout’residue prevention, how well this works depends on both the tile and the wax, in other words sometimes it wokrs great, other times the pigments and cements/polymers in the grout, get throught the wax and stain the tile anyway.
My experience, (and my gut feeling) is telling me that the issue you have is actually a grout haze; tiny residue/film of the gout has become trapped in the very small surface micro pores of the porcelain. This produces the cloudy/hazey effect that appears to come from within the surface, as opposed to from upon it. If this is the case, it can be tricky to remove I have posted an indepth article on this here – click on the diagrams to a bigger view.
If it is the wax then you could try: Hot water with detergent; stronger alkaline detergent; Microscrub or a solvent like acetone or paint thinner – in that order (least aggressive to worst etc)
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi there
I have just has black glossy porcelain tiles laid in my new kitchen. These were purchased from topps tiles who recommended they be also sealed once laid. We purchased the recommended polished porcelain protector (manufacturer fila home care products) and applied to the laid tiles. However despite been sealed the tiles show every water mark on them once it is mopped. In addition if you walk on the tiles tfootprints also remain on the tiles. As a result. The floor looks awful.
Can you recommend a solution? Should we reseal them with an alternative product and if so what do you recommend. In addition if resealing with a alternative is recommended do we need remove the existing sealant and if so what would you recommend.
This is most frustrating as they look great but only when wet and if you don’t walk on them which kinda defeats their purpose !
ANy advise you can give would be most appreciated
We have bought ceramic slate effect tiles. We want them sealed, but at what stage please before or after grouting?
Hi Jess,
I get so many questions on polished black porcelain so you are not alone.
First of all, did your porcelain have a transit wax, and if so was it removed prior to sealing? If there was and it was not removed, this could have prevented your sealer from penetrating correctly – worth exploring.
Second, the water marks – unfortunately, the whole point of porcelain tiles it to make a ceramic tile with some of the same properties as glass – it is made from similar materials and in a similar way – (large amounts of silica fired at a high temperature makes a ceramic material that is very similar to glass). If you wash glass windows, we do not tend to leave the water to dry of its own accord, if we do we get streaks and marks. Instead we use a squeegee or chamois leather to dry the moisture away. The reason is that no water is 100% pure, it almost always has some impurities in it, (calcium etc). So on highly polished floors (even glazed and polished stone etc) it is always a good idea to dry the floor with an old towel after washing – remove the water before it dries and you won’t have the water marks or streaks. This as I say happens on most polished surfaces but it stands out on black much more – so not a fault but a characteristic of the material.
Regarding the foot marks though, this is more complex and is due to the microscopic texture that is present due to the polishing process of porcelain, my article I have some diagrams that try to explain this.
A sealer may help here, provided it can get in (i.e. no tranist wax) but it may not stop the marks altogether. Is it a falt with the tile? -Very hard to prove this but I do understand your disapointment. The good news is that over time, this issue does seem to lessen somewhat.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi, by ‘ceramic effect slate tiles’, I canot determine if they are glazed or porcelain,
If glazed they won’t need and should not be sealed. If they are porcelain, (probably unglazed) then a temporary coating sealer could help. In this case I would lay the tiles, then seal, then grout, then when the grout has cured use an alkaline cleaner to remove the temprary sealer.
If you wish you can seal the grout later with a grout sealer or if you think the tile is a little bit porous, less lkley, then use an impregnator all over the tile, prior to grouting (so in place of the coating sealer), then when the grout is cured re seal and sea the grout as well.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi ! WE PURCHASED PORCELAIN TILE THAT LOOKS LIKE WOOD AND IT HAD A SLIGHT GLOSS TO IT. BUT I CLEANED IT WITH SOME PRODUCTS THAT HAVE MADE IT MUGGY LOOKING. WHEN WE WALK ON IT OUR FOOT PRINTS CAN BE SEEN. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN USE TO GET THE SHINE BACK! I FEEL BAD I THINK I MESSED UP OUR FLOORS! I LOVED MY FLOORS PLEASE HELP!
PLEASE E MAIL ME AT UR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE. THANKS
HI,
there is a chance you have left a deposit of cleaner on the tile, which is making the floor ook dull. Try a little more of the cleaner in an inconspicuous area, let it sit then scrub, then rinse immediately and buff dry – have you got back to your shine?
If you are in the USA, try to get some Nanoscrub, this is an abrasive cleaner, it might just remove any deposited residue.
If you really have used some really strong chemical that has attacked the porcelain to the extent that is has altered the surface – then I doubt there will be a remedy
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian
My problem is the same as the one posted on September 18th 2008. We have black porcelain tiles in our kitchen and they appear to have a white residue all over them. We have tried all sorts from scrubbing on hands and knees to heavy duty tile cleaner. They are called Viella Mate from Tile Giant. I can send you a picture if that would help you diagnose the problem. We’re at our wit’s end. A Tile Giant rep has been out and he can’t seem to solve the problem either. We have tried grout removers, brick acid, heavy duty tile cleaner, hot soapy water – we’re beginning to think there’s a problem with the tile.
I’m unsure as to how I attach a picture.
Please help!
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
OK, there could be an issue with the tile, a picture may help me. Do you have a picture of a new tile (unfixed) also as a control?
You can send a picture to my email on info@tileandstoneblog.co.uk
Hope this helps
Ian
We have the exact same tiles and problem as Debbie on 18 August post. Is there any update to her problem via Tile Giant as our tiles also came from there.
Hi Jan,
No sorry, I did not hear anything more, I did not receive a picture as was suggested. There are a number of things that it could be but I was hoping for a picture for a better idea.
can you send me one of your issue?
Regards
Ian
Hi,
I have put a carpet film floor protector down on my porcelain tiles and the glue has penetrated the pores of the tile causing a clouding effect! Does anyone have a trick to sort this!
Thanks
Paul
Hi Paul,
you could try a little solvent, like some acetone or white spirits – worth a try
Kind regards
Ian
I bought brown tiles checked the colour codes on boxes were all the same had tiles put on walls of shower room by tiler didn’t notice when cleaning that doted around the room a few tiles are if a different shade complained to tops tile as we felt we had done as much to avoid something like this tops have said they would exchange the tiles that are odd if we can get them off the walls are lath and plaster so the tiler is not prepared to do this what can I do please
Hi Wendy,
First of all, I must state that I am not qualified to give legal advice
– I can only really offer technical advice and at best, just my
‘opinion’ regarding what you can do re Topps etc.
Ok, it is possible that the tiles are a different shade, even if the
boxes that are all marked as the same shade – they can get through the
factory quality controls. Ultimately, in my ‘opinion’ if they are
dramatically different shade then this is the responsibility of the
manufacturer, via their reseller, in this case Topps. However, Topps
have offered to change them, so would seem to be doing their bit and
being reasonable.
Whilst I understand that you have done what you thought possible to
check /avoid this issue, most tile manufacturers and retailers will
state (somewhere, on the box, on the invoice, on in-store posters etc)
that responsibility for faulty tiles cannot be accepted once they are
‘fixed’ in place – this is an industry-wide standard. (I do not know for
sure if a judge would allow this clause or ‘get out’ but I suspect they
might).
Whatever the legal position, you can only solve the problem by removing
the old tiles and replacing them (assuming they have got sufficient
tiles that DO match yours of course).
I understand that the Tiler is nervous about doing this, particularly if
he feels the wall behind will be unavoidably damaged, if he is a good
tiler and has tiled the walls correctly, then he is probably right to be
nervous as the tile adhesive is likely to be stronger than the lath and
plaster.
What this means is that in order to remove the tiles, there will likely
be some damage to the plaster, but this is just the way it is, you could
damage a tile by fitting a shower rail, or some other thing in the
future and will be faced with the same issue. Ultimately it will be
repairable, – worst case you have to get a plasterer in to fix the
‘hole’ first, then allow it to dry and the re tile
To remove the tiles, it is wise to first rake out the grout around the
tile, this isolates the tile and stops shock transferring from one tile
to another, and/or stops the grout sticking to the glazed edge of the
adjacent tiles, and bringing a bit of that glaze away with it,
necessitating removal of additional tiles that were fine. To do this you
can (carefully) use a brand new stanley blade, but take care not to
allow the balde to jump out of the joint and scratch across adjacent
tiles. Better to buy a grout rake; Topps may have one – it is a tungsten
carbide abrasive tool that allows you to quickly rub away at the grout.
There are machines designed for this as well called Fein machines
(oscillating cutters – much safer than angle grinders) you will not want
to buy one of these, but maybe your tiler has one? It would be better to
persuade your Tiler to help, perhaps reassure him that you will accept
the inevitable little bit of damage to the plaster, as it will be
unavoidable, but he can still take care to minimize the damage. It may
be that there is a small amount of damage that can be repaired by him –
sometimes a small piece of plaster-board can be retro fitted into a hole
and some fibre glass skrim tape used over it to reinfoce. I have done
this myself on several occasions. For sure a Plasterer could fix this
for you.
That is how I see your situation from a practical standpoint, whether or
not you have any argument in legal terms (as to who should pay for this
repair) I cannot say, my gut feeling is it would be a hard fight – But
that is, as I say just my feeling
I hope I have been of some assistance
Ian
Hi,
We have just had polished porcelain tiles put on our bathroom walls. The plumber has sealed them with a LTP MPG Sealer.
Unfortunately, there are pen marks on some of the tiles. The sealer has been placed on top of these.
How can I get them off? They have ruined the look of the tiles. If they wil not come off, can you tell me if it is possible for one tile to be removed in the centre of the wall (by the plumber/tiler) as I think I will have to insist he does this if the marks will not come out.
Due to hurricane Sandy, we had three feet of water in our house. We have porcelain tile and we are on a slab. Should we take the tile up or is there a way to salvage it? This is a shore house and the water was sea water.
Hi Hannah,
OK, if it is permanent marker you will need a solvent type cleaner – there are lots on the market, but you could try some clear nail varnish remover (the old fashioned type that has acetone in it. This will also remove the sealer but that can be put back locally after.
It might take several goes, just keep dabbing at the mark with the acetone with a cotton wool pad and rubbing. If this does not work, suggest you contact LTP, ask them what they recommend for removing their sealer, it is probably a solvent and may also work for the pen.
If you are not successful, then yes, in theory you can change tiles. Isolate the grout around them first with a grout rake or oscillating tool, then break out the tile, remove the adhesive bed and prepare to receive a new tile. If your walls are weak plaster/plasterbaord then you may have some repairs to do to this first.
I would exhaust they idea of trying to clean it before attempting to remove tiles though
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Chuck,
OK, first of all, sorry to hear about the hurricane, it looked truly awful from the TV reports – I hope you are not too badly affected.
The tiles themselves, if they are a true porcelain, should not show any ill affects from the salt water, and should be able to be cleaned and returned to a perfectly serviceable condition. There may be salty deposits on them but a mild phosphoric acid type cleaner should soon sort that out.
However, the grout, if that is at all porous (and only an epoxy grout would eb impervious) may well have been saturated, depending on what is underneath the tiles you may or may not have an ongoing issue. You say they are on a slab, so by this you mean solid concrete, presumably fixed with a proprietary adhesive? If so, I think the worst case would be that you may get some recurring ‘efflorescence’ – salt crystals coming back up through the grout as it dries out, and this may re appear after washing but should slowly diminish over time.
I would live with it for a while and see if this happens – on the face of it i see o reason to lift the floor.
Hope this helps
Ian
ron
We have just received 70 mts of porcelain tiles by rail, on opening have found tiles -50×50-top facing, stuck together. How do we separate them without damaging ?
Hi Ron,
Sounds like they are stuck to each other, hopefully with just a little transit wax that was still wet when they were stacked/packed. Try gently prizing them apart with a strong plastic scraper, or even a thin metal one, if they do not come apart easily with little effort, and not damage then I would go back to your supplier – they should not be hard to separate
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi guys
Hope someone can help.
I have glazed porcelain tiles and I am suffering from grout haze. I have the the same tiles on the floor just a different colour (although they feel much smoother) and managed to get rid of the haze in the floor tiles.
For the wall tiles I have used the same product ( grout residue remover from Topps) but it just doesn’t work. I have tried vinegar with water and scrubbed away but it doesn’t work. The tiles feel like sand paper and it seems as if the grout has got stuck in through the little holes in between. Someone has suggested DuPont but I don’t know if I can get it in the UK. Has anyone used this product or has anyone get any other suggestions. I can send pictures if that helps.
Thanks in advance
Hi there,
I have a lovely porcelain floor in my kitchen. I was told it didn’t need sealing but now three weeks into using the kitchen the tiles look darker in some places than others, particularly around the cooker and other high use areas. The tiles are very rustic looking with lots of little holes and indentations in them. In hindsight I think we should have sealed it. I now need to get it as clean as I can and then seal it to prevent further staining. I am thinking of using a steam cleaner to get inside the holes in the tile and lift the dirt. Would you recommend this? Have you any advice on using steam cleaners on porcelain tiles.
Any help is much appreciated.
Mel
Hi,
OK, is sounds like you may have a polymer modified grout – the haze from these are harder to remove as the polymer residue helps to protect the cement from acids – which is what most grout haze removers are based on – so the cement is protected and the grout haze remover wont work (or wont work as well).
To compound this the ‘texture’ of this particular glaze is making it harder to clean, and gives the grout haze something to key to.
You might need to try a couple of things:
1) a micro-abrasive cleaner – Like Microscrub by all for stone or similar – sometimes the mildly abrasive particles can just help gently grind out the stubborn haze.
2) a solvent based stripper (like a paint stripper) can be used to get through the polymers
sometimes a careful combination of the above, and even an acid cleaner may be required
hope this helps
Ian
Hi Mel,
many porcelains do not need sealing, some are glazed some are not. It is hard to say what you have without more information, just because your tiles are ‘rustic’ with holes, does not mean they are not glazed, and even if they are unglazed, they could still be very impervious and not need (or be able to take) any sealer. However, they could have a degree of surface porosity also – so it is hard to advise.
However I suspect that it is just the rustic, surface texture holding onto contaminants, like oil and grease, and they in turn then darken down as they attract dust and other dirt. The fist thing I would do is conduct a periodic deep clean:
1. pre wet the floor
2. apply a High Alkaline cleaner (like All for Stone Xtreme Clean)
3. leave it to dwell for 15 minutes DO NOT ALLOW IT TO DRY OUT – keep adding more if it does
4. scrub the floor, and particularly the grout joints with a nylon bristlted scrubbing brush
5. remove the dirty cleaning solution – preferably with a wet vac if you can get one, if not with a mop
6. rinse well – this means CLEAN water, applied to the floor, SCRUBBED a little with a CLEAN mop, then extracted again
You could also try adding some Microscrub after #3 before #4 as this mild abrasive will help get into the tiny holes.
After if this has worked, the it may just be that the texture of this tile necessitates this type of cleaning a bit more frequently.
I strongly suspect that the tile are not actually staining, that the contaminants are not actually getting into the tile itself, just sitting rather stubbornly in hard-to-reach micro-sized holes
I would try this deep clean first, then live with the floor a bit – I suspect that no sealer will help – but if you have further problems please come back to me
Hope this helps
Ian
Thanks for the advise Ian I will try giving it a deep clean and see how it goes.
Thankyou Mel
My porcelain floor tile have water marks all over every piece, some more obvious than others. It is very obvious under light reflection. The surfaces are shinning. Hence it looks like the water marks are beneath the surface. I have pictures but couldn’t show. Floor specialist was also called to examine and some chemicals were use to try and removed it but failed. Please help advise, what cause it and how to treat it.
HI,
If you have tried all the chemical options then it may be a fault in the tile – sometimes there can be issues with the polishing process itself, if they do not create the polish properly at the factory (by not polishing for the right time between grits, or even skipping of some grinding grits altogether, not keeping the blocks well maintained etc) if this is the case then there may not be any solution.
You say a floor specialist came out, to see it. Have you tried http://floormedics.com.sg/ ? if not they are very experienced and might be worth a try ( I am assuming from your ip address that you are in Singapore)
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian, thanks for the respond. Yes I am from Singapore. And the specialist was from floormedics engage by my renovation contractor to look at the problem. He was the first to suggest that the stains could have been transport from beneath towards the surface but emphasised that it was jus speculation. They also suggest that to wait for a few months to see if it will improve.
OK, well if they have not managed to fix it, I am thinking even more that there could be an issue with the tile. Do you have any spare tiles left? – have you inspected them to see if they also have the same issues? if they do I would go back to the tile supplier and ask their advice.
Hope this helps
Ian
Dear Ian, I have a few piece spare tiles. All looks fine. 1 piece was taken away by my contractor. They test it with acid, but no problem , no stain. I have place the spare tile on the stained tiles, pictures in Dropbox:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/80138016/Book1.xlsx
The spare tiles is on the bottom right of the 2 pictures.
The supplier came to see it and suggest that to wait for a few months to see if it will go away (moisture trap may take time to evaporate).
HI,
OK, well you could wait, but I suggest you don’t just go quiet for for a few months, don’t want to give them the excuse that the floor is now 6 months old and you have put all kinds of things on it, it is not new any more etc.
Instead, take a photo of the same part of the floor, where you can clearly see an issue, do this once per week record the date and keep a note. Save the file, and send them an email, with the photo, stating if it has changed or improved at all.
At the end of the ‘few months’ you will have got an indisputable documentation of the tiles over that time,
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian we had 2200 square feet of beige porcelain tiles laid one year ago. We noticed right after that optical haze was present, had several professionals look at it n try to clean with no improvement. we have few boxes of new tiles that we realized after the fact have the same problem. We also found out tiles are made in China. Could that be the problem and is there anything we can do?
Thank You
Raffaela
Hi Raffaela,
If you have found the ‘haze’ on the spare tiles then it could be one of several tings:
Transit wax – but one would have expected at least some of your cleaning efforts to have removed some if not all of this
Factory-applied Sealer residue – again this would likely have been spotted by the professionals you engaged
Some actual fault in the polishing process – the polish is created by subjecting the tiles to a series of grinding blocks, starting with a coarse grit, moving, gradually, through several grades until they end up with a very fine grit.
If not enough time was spent on each grit before moving to then next one, or they skipped a grit stage o=r two, or they were grinding/polishing with grit blocks that needed replacing, then any one of those situations, (or any combination) can result in improperly finished surfaces. IF this is the case then there is little that can be dine and you should really go back tot he supplier and make a complaint- the fact that you have lived with it for a year make make your case more difficult, even with the spare tiles to point to, but I am no legal expert.
In theory, porcelain tiles can be polished in situ – there are now various products available that can polish porcelain but, it is still early days and it is a bit hit and miss, and a very expensive process.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi ! WE PURCHASED PORCELAIN TILE THAT LOOKS LIKE WOOD . BUT I CLEANED IT WITH SOME PRODUCTS THAT HAVE MADE IT MUGGY LOOKING. WHEN WE WALK ON IT OUR FOOT PRINTS CAN BE SEEN. IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN USE TO GET THE LOOK BACK! I FEEL BAD I THINK I MESSED UP OUR FLOORS!IT IS NOT GLAZED.CAN WE DO ANY POLISHING ON TO IT TO MAKE IT GLAZE.
PLEASE E MAIL ME AT UR EARLIEST CONVENIENCE. THANKS
hi,
I’m trying to pre-empt the above problems. I am wanting to use Plaza Nova color body porcelain tile by Dal Tile on my kitchen floor. Since the Plaza Nova Series is in the section that is colour body porcelain as opposed to glazed porcelain, then I’m assuming Plaza Nova is unglazed. (I’m interested in the black colour in the kitchen and the gray colour in the bathroom). These tiles are from China. They say use a grout release to prevent dark pigments in the grout from getting into the pores. I want to use epoxy grout, so that i can use any cleaner afterwards to clean: e.g. tsp.
I want to prevent any problems, not only with grout haze, but also with future cleaning.
It sounds as if the process should be: lay tile, apply a temporary sealer, then grout, once grout has cured, remove sealer and seal grout.
How do i decide if I need to use a permanent tile sealer?
I would appreciate your recommendations before I get into problems.
Thanks in advance,
Karen
Hi,
I am not 100% sure what you have done, but it is possible that you have left some residue of whatever cleaner you use, this may have left a dull deposit, as opposed to making the actual tile surface dull.
Try using a cream abrasive cleaner and a white pad, or a little more of whatever cleaner you used (if you have damaged the tile, then it is not going to make any difference) but this time, do not let it dry, wipe it away while it is still wet, then rinse with clean water, and rub it dry (buff it) with a cotton towel.
See if this make a difference first, if not come back to me
Hope this helps
Ian