I said I would be back talking about problems and issues with porcelain tiles and here I am. This won’t be the final chapter either. Having had yet another call today on ‘cloudy marks’ on newly laid porcelain floor tiles I thought should bring it up as a blog topic.So, what is the problem? An increasing number of porcelain manufacturers are applying coatings to their tiles at the factory. This practice is predominant (but not restricted to) manufacturers in China and some other Eastern countries. Basically there are several types of coating that can be applied, from easy to remove waxes, to much more stubborn wax-type coatings and now even new ‘nano’ sealers.
The reason that these coatings are applied is two-fold; firstly, it is applied to the face of the tiles to help prevent damage caused during transit; (with the tiles being stacked against each other, they can scratch). Secondly, it is intended to provide a small degree of protection on site.
The problem is that the coatings need to be removed before or after grouting, but certainly upon completion (depends on the coating). This is where the problem arises, as it is not always easy to remove, and, furthermore if it is not removed it will leave the tile looking, dull, patchy, cloudy or hazy. Sometimes it is so bad it looks like grout staining.
Some large retailers have had so many issues that they now (finally) tell their customers that there is a wax and that it should be removed, although they do not seem to be too proficient at telling them how to remove the coatings.
In general terms, most of these coatings are a wax and typically they need removing before grouting. Some professionals prefer to leave the wax on whilst grouting but I have seen many problems with this, although the wax can help, it does not always prevent staining from grout. The grouting process itself can partially remove the wax and this does two things:
1. It leaves a patchy, partial wax coating and,
2. It means some grouts, especially the pigmented ones, can now stain the unprotected areas of the tile. So, my preferred system would be as follows:
1. Lay tiles
2. Remove wax
3. Apply a good quality impregnating sealer
4. Grout
5. When completely cured, apply final coat of the same sealer (this way you make sure the tile is properly sealed, and chances are, if it was waxed, it is the type of porcelain that needs sealing – plus, you also seal the grout.)
Next time I’ll talk about ways to remove the wax and also about Nano sealer residue.
Copyright Ian Taylor and The Tile and Stone Blog.co.uk, 2013. See copyright notice above.
Hi Debbie, I think you might be able to fix this but I just emailed you privately with a ‘local’ contact for more assistance hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian
I think I am having a similar problem to Debbie. Matt italian porcelain tiles in dark grey colour, laid 10 years ago. They look dull and marked all the time and when the light shines on them OMG! I tried everything (cleaners, vinegar, meth, enjo, plain hot water, professional clean) and it just seems to make it worse. the tiles only look good when they are wet. After they were laid we were told they probably had the manufacturers seal on them that has never been properly removed. The other thing is, they seem to be quite porous – for instance if you have wet sneaker on (from the rain) they will leave a sneaker mark on the floor that is near on impossible to get off. In the kitchen water droplets not quickly wiped up also seem to leave an obvious mark. It’s crazy. Not sure what more I can do but have to do something!
Hi Yvonne,
A number of problems there and you have tried many solutions so difficult to advise. Having said that it may be you have tried one of the best solutions, but for some reason, not been properly advised on how to use it. It could be a number of things, original manufacturer’s seal – 10 years ago? – not so sure about that, maybe. Could also be wax, but after 10 years wear and tear and all that cleaning, I doubt it.
The surface could be damaged. It could be dulling due to a build up of contaminants (for example calcium from hard water) or it just might be that the tile is dull by nature, mat finish with slight porosity, this will always look better wet.
It may be that you could squeeze a colour enhancing sealer in that would darken it slightly – not often possible with porcelain
I am going to copy this message to a colleague of mine in Australia who may be able to offer you some more advice
hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian,
I found your great website on google would like to commend you on all the useful information you have put together.
I have a quick question with regards to some porcelain tiles we have had laid in our new bathroom and kitchen. I was informed by the shop they were almost bomb proof but have to say it doesn’t appear that way.
First I should say that the tiles have never been sealed and weren’t cleaned before being layed.
We have just had some downlights installed in the bathroom which created a load of dust from the plaster board and now the tiled floor looks very blotchy. I also have to say the tiler we used left grout marks on the tiles and it is just generally a mess.
Can you well me why since we had the downlights installed the floor seems to have stains all over it? They are matt charcoal grey tiles and it just looks terrible.
These are the tiles:
http://www.keope.com/en/prodotti/back
I really really hope you can help!
Cheers
Alan
Hi Alan, first things first: no such thing as a bomb-proof, water-proof, stain-proof, non-slip tile. However the tiles you have are of top quality (or would appear to be form the info online).
Tiles like this can have a transit wax on them of other factory applied coating – I would check this with your supplier.
This may need to be removed. Also you say the tiler left grout residue on the tiles – this will give a blotchy/dusty appearance – try a cement haze remover (not a brick acid – see my previous posts on the truth about acids). This may be all that you need to do.
Down lighters – whilst they area great way to light a room stylishly they are harsh critics of tiled floors (and even more so for walls) – (or any floor with straight lines and a plane that needs to be as flat and even as possible) they can cast shadows that accentuate unevenness – however in your case they are just direct lighting – hitting the floor at 90 degrees and will show up any dust, marks etc on the tile.
My first effort would be to try to remove the cement/grout residue and see hat that does.
Hope this helps
Ian
hi my porcelain tiles of one year which has been dull and hazy is now losing its sheen. its like its walked off . What can I do to put a shine on it again?
Hi Masnoena
OK, I doubt a porcelain tile would wear dull in the space of a year, unless the traffic it was being subjected to was intense. If it was polished, it would take an enormous amount of abuse to make it wear off. If it has then you would need to have it re-polished, this is expensive and not that practical in situ, and if the factory finish only lasted a year, then it might seem a little pointless.
It is more likely I think, that there is some kind of build up, a patina if you like, This can often happen through regular cleaning (detergent residues can build up and leave a tile looking dull and lifeless). A thorough deep-clean with a high alkaline cleaner, that is rinsed well afterwards and buffed dry might remove this.
Hope this helps
Ian
I change my floors changed middle of 2013 to white glossy 20×20 porcelain floors. I have noticed marks like a finger mark and dull scratches. I have applied vinegar, alcohol thinking it is greese but is not. Is there a way I can reppair these dull marks??
Hi Elmar, ok, for the removal of grease, an acid like vinegar is not the best option, and I would always try a high alkaline before a solvent or alcohol. However what you might have is a factory-applied, wax coating (or some other coating) on the tiles and it could be that marks are being left in this, or parts of it are being removed, so the marks are actually ‘clean spots’ if you see what I mean.
I would try a high alkaline cleaner, and also a microabrasive cleaner – designed to remove these sorts of coatings without scratching the tiles.
Given your location I would try contacting Mapei USA’ Technical dept. (they are based out of Deerfeild Beach FL) They have both of these products and I know they are good.
Hope this helps
Ian
My tiles are the same. Laid in August 2014. Cloudy, smudged. Hate them. Had them professionally 3 times. I have found out that the problem is within the tile during manufacturing. Paid $44.00sqm and $77sqm. to have them laid. $13,000 total. I have complained to the supplier and the importer and I am waiting for a solution. Meantime I have 110sq metres of tiles that I hate. They are Everstone Slate Grey. 600 x 600 rectified honed. Did you problem get sorted?
Hi Ian
Just thought I would fill you in on what I have found out since my last post. I finally found someone locally who knew about tiles to come over and have a look. He did a test on one tile using a non alkaline cleaner sprayed directly onto the tile – he scrubbed it with what he called a doddlebug – a kind of abrasive pad, and then towel dried it. Couldn’t believe the amount of what looked like dirt on the white towel! Tile itself was now slightly lighter in colour with no haze and no stain marks and is still like that a few weeks later. It took a bit of elbow grease but the result was amazing. Seems like there was years of waxy build up on the tiles that no amount of vinegar, meth or hot water mopping was going to remove. Just need to do them all now – all 88sqm metres of them (or get Kerin back to do them professionally). I’m so relieved. Thanks for your help and your blog. Yvonne
hi Yvonne,
OK, clearly it is a build up of deposits that needs to be removed. Don’t feel too bad these things do not appear over night, they build up, slowly over time, and you don’t notice it happening until one day, in certain light you see that it has lost some of its lustre and so you look closely.
Your expert might not like alkaline cleaners but if he used a neutral cleaner then more scrubbing is required. Sure acids like vinegar will do nothing alkaline is the way to go here. Get a good alkaline deep cleaner (in Aus you can get Xtreme Clean from Aqua Seal .com.au) use this in conjunction with a white scrub pad and rinse well after it should make the job easier.
You can also help by using an abrasive cream cleaner – again the guys at Aqua Seal have Microscrub – this is very mild but has a non scratching abrasive that will help remove coatings – this can be used along side the Xtreme Clean to boost its performance even further , or in place of it if you really want to avoid using high alkaline (Microscrub is moderately alkaline)
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian,
I have recently laid 100 metres of 600 X 600
Polished porcelain tiles, I have now discovered that everywhere the grout was pushed into the gaps there is a dull area, only when light hits it at a specific angle. At first I thought it may have been the grout sealer residue or grout residue. I have tried vinegar,metho, paint stripper,acetone.
I think it is the tile itself and it has been scuffed buy the grouting process. I thought porcelain was supposed to be hard to scratch, or are the tiles i have just poor quality, any way my question is can polished porcelain tiles be re-polished?
Cheers Rod
Hi Rod,
Nothing on the planet is scratch proof, if you rub two diamonds together they will scratch each other. That said, most porcelain is pretty tough, but there is silica sand in grout – however it is not usual for grout to scratch the actual tile surface.
There could be however, a transit wax or some other coating on the tiles that needs removing, and it is this that has become scratched/dulled.
First thing I would do is get the supplier involved ask them if there is any form of factory-applied coating on the tile tiles that should be removed, and if so what do they recommend for this.
If you get no joy with that then I would request a representative from the factory/supplier come look at it to advise you.
Hope this helps
Ian
How do you remove the wax
Hi Tonja,
Are you asking about removal of wax from Porcelain?
Usually one or a combination of:
A high alkaline cleaner
A solvent stripper
A micro-abrasive cleaner
Hope this helps
Ian
I have just found your web page I live in the UK . 3 Years ago I had high gloss porcelaine tiles laid in my kitchen. Since the beginning they have been difficult to keep clean . I have been washing them every day sometimes twice a day as they show every mark when I walk on them. Cooking etc and the kitchen looks awful
My Son had similar tiles and said he thought they had a wax on them . I stupidly had HG Porcelaine cleaner and I used this neat on the floor. It is now full of streaks and splodges and looks awful . I then tried vinegar with soda bicarbonate on it but no success. I am at my wits end. It is a small kitchen so might be best just to have them taken up My biggest problem is that I live in a flat for retirement people so neighbours are elderly
I have twice had the floor taken up when changing my kitchen The noise was incredible and the tiles came up a little bit at a time It took a tiler a whole morning to remove them
Is there anything else that you could recommend?? The floor blotches almost look like they have circles and streaks as well as big blotches. I have kept washing them but to no avail . Any advice would be appreciated
Thank you Sue
Hi Sue,
OK, it does sound like some kind of wax. The streakiness suggests that the HG product has done something, just not finished the job.
I would not expect vinegar and bicarb to do much – just fizz a bit as the acid in the vinegar just reacts with the bi carb – but it most likely wont do much to the wax.
You need a solvent or an alkaline – most waxes respond well to alkaline cleaners (like my Xtreme Clean avaiable on Amazon)
but, I would try persisting with the HG product – first just try one tile, allow enough of the product for that tile, then let it dwell/work for a few minutes, then scrub, then rinse well with water (try warm water) then let it dry – see if it is completely clean, or if there are streaks. If streaks, repeat the process – (it may take more than one pass, and the streaks are what is left after the first one)
Try up to 3 applications – then rinse, then BUFF dry –
one thing to remember is that polished porcelain is virtually the same as glass – if you were washing glass, windows or even your car, you would buff/polish dry to avoid streaks – streaks are just residue of whatever is dissolved in the water – (wax, in your case but also hard water deposits, and even residue of the detergent you are using)
if it will not come off, then next step is to contact the supplier and ask them to come and inspect the tiles
hope this helps
Ian
I have a big area in my house , and when the house was built I chose porcelain tiles for the floors, my tiles are 60×60 square, and everyone comments on how nice they look, but I have been very disappointed in them, because they have a wax coating on them from the factory and it is very difficult to remove it, and my husband and I have tried many different things, and I can still see the wax which looks dull.
I would never have porcelain tiles again.
This is quite a common problem unfortunately, I’m afraid it all depends on the porcelain in question.
hi there,
I unfortunately bought gloss tiles for the floor through my house and the greatest bugbear is the kitchen where you can see every footprint. Is there anyway I can apply some substance to make them into a matte tile.
Hi Unfortunately it is not that simple. You are correct in that the gloss will show marks, just like glass, what happens when we put our hands on a window? Gloss tiles, whether glazed or polished porcelain – are basically almost the same as glass.
There are treatments that can be applied, although normally they are for increasing slip resistance, but I would not advise them, the older ones use hydrofluoric acid which in addition to being extremely dangerous to people, damages the tiles. the more modern types are designed to leave a non slip coating but not alter the look.
The problem with any non slip coating is that they tend to grip dirt as well as they grip people – so treatments like this may ,make your problem worse.
The answer I am afraid is to buff your floors dry after washing, and use micro fibre towels for wiping away marks – it is the best you can do.
Ian
We had the same problem – 1800 sq ft of new porcelain 24/24 “matt” tile. Didn’t know if it was the grout booster or something the tiler did. Floors looked scratchy, every footprint showed, shiny in some spots, dull in others – looked absolutely AWFUL and we thought they were ruined. Also had pencil marks we couldn’t get up. We first tried vinegar and water with scotch pad which didn’t work. Moved on to salfamic (sp?) acid with scotch pad – didn’t work either. Finally was able to get pencil marks out with Barkeepers Friend using the “sponge” side of a scotch pad (not the scotch pad side). Noticed it also cleaned up the rest of the tile. We tried the Barkeepers Friend on a bunch of tiles (again with the sponge side), followed with water and then cleaned with vinegar and water to get up residue – worked like a charm! We just finished the whole 1800 sq of tile with the Barkeepers Friend and our floors look gorgeous! Unbelievable after 6 months of frustration…
Thanks for that Sharon,
I agree, I have used this on occasion, where other, normal remedies have failed and although it does not work in every situation, I have had some good results. However I would urge some caution. That product is a little more abrasive than the majority of product out there for cleaning porcelain. Most porcelain is so hard that it would not ever be an issue but there are some porcelain out there on the market which have a hardness at or about the same as the cleaner you mention and there is therefore the potential for some scratching to occur.
Thanks
Ian
Thanks Ian – good to know. No scratching has occurred for me and certainly would recommend everyone to do a test area on their tile no matter what type of cleaner they are using – which I believe you have always recommended. I was very happy to find your blog and to find out that many other people have had this same issue (not that I’m happy they have the issue!). I really thought our tiles were damaged and we would have to live with it. I was so fed up that I tried the BKF out of frustration and figured it couldn’t make them any worse because they were just that bad! Thanks for posting this blog and your help!
Having just installed ivory polished porcelain tiles, (we inspected each tile for chips/damage etc), after laying, noticed cloudy marks on the edges and in the centres. The retailer sent the supplier rep round who spent 20 minutes polishing an “out of the box” tile. The results?? Awful. Conclusion, manufacture fault in the polishing. The retailer has been more than accommodating, offering a full refund from the tiles, adhesives to the grout. It has been suggested the supplier would send a team to re-do the floor. It isn’t the replacing the floor that is the issue, the tiles were thicker than what was taken up, so consequently, plinths, skirting, architraves were replaced, (I had to finish decorating as we cannot have the kitchen unfinished) It is the mess that goes with it. On reading up on complaints on polished porcelain tiles, far more in depth than I did prior to buying, I would advise anyone thinking to read this again and other posts before and DO NOT HAVE THEM, but, if you still decide to go with them, I wish you well. At worse, I get a free floor and live with it, redo in a couple of years (or decades), or I go for the supplier installation and get a “perfect floor”, but will they be able to provide flawless tiles?? Floor fitted by myself and my retired father in law, who has 50 years experience in tiling!!
Sorry to hear this,
I have to say that there are some good porcelain tiles around, and we tend only to ever hear about the bad ones, the difficulty for most people though is how can you tell what you are buying?
A couple of thoughts on this would be:
Can the supplier give you a sample from CURRENT stock, i.e stock from the same batch as that that you will receive if you order – if so inspect it well
Can the supplier give you the name of 2 -3 customers who have had the same tile down who would be willing to talk to you – so you can see.hear from them regarding their experience – did they have any issues etc.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian.
We’ve a problem with our porcelain tiles. They are large black tiles. Our tiler was not the best to say the least and did not seal the tiles.
Now the tiles always have a greasy dirty look. We’ve tried cleaning with glass cleaner and paper towels, it looks clean but soon after greasy again. Marks always show on the floor, footprints etc.
Can these be cleaned and sealed now or do we have to retire?
Any help advice on products and methods appreciated.
Thanks.
Hi Gary,
OK, well first of all, my sympathies, polished black porcelain are the most common tile that I see people having issues with ( I am assuming your tiles are polished from the description of your issue).
The greasy look could have been due to a waxy coating applied by the factory (not the tiler) and it might be one that required cleaning off, this you have now done with the glass cleaner,
It sounds to me like you actually got them clean and now what you are experiencing is a little different, (sure it could still be traces of the waxy coating if that is what it was, and further cleaning should remove that) but it could also be that as you have now got the tiles clean, this is just the nature of what tey are:
Polished Porcelain is very similar to glass. In fact, they are both types of high quality, high temperature ceramic, made with a lot of silica. You could think of porcelain as an impure form of glass (i.e glass with other stuff in it like other clays etc).
One of the characteristics of this glass-like material is it is so smooth at the surface that it is not easy to stain, instead of penetrating the material, contaminants stay on the surface. So anything that is left on the tiles is going to be kept at the top. Also the more polished and ‘perfect’ the finish the more noticeable anything that is put on top of it. If you think of how we clean glass, windows, car windows etc. Often avoiding the hottest time of day, and we always squeegee off the water from windows or use a chamois leather on cars glass (and highly polished painted surfaces) this is because as the water evaporates, it leaves behind anything carried in the water – like soap, detergent residues, traces of dirt, even just minerals in the water itself -so hard water and limescale – these become water marks and streaks. Even when we use window cleaner (a solvent/alcohol) we still have to buff it dry to avoid streaks forming – well polished porcelain is exactly the same – so it is good practice to buff a floor dry after cleaning for exactly the same reasons. Similarly, put your hand on a window, you leave behind an imprint of your hand, some of that imprint is moisture that quickly evaporates, but you almost always also leave behind traces of grease from your skin (think of a child pressing his/her face against the window) – when we walk on polished porcelain with bare feet or socks, the same thing happens. When we walk with shoes they can also leave an imprint as the sole is squashed against the surface of the tile, depositing antything that may be mist, greasy or sticky enough to want to cling to the glassy porcelain surface.
Having said that, some polished porcelain whilst smooth to the eye and even to the feel, when viewed under a microscope, can have lots of tiny holes – these micro-pores can grab first and grease etc – like a cheese grater. This can make it a little harder to remove and it is possible, but by no means definite that sealing in this situation could help (by helping to fill up those holes with a polymer that you cannot see so dirt/grease cannot so easily cling to the surface). IF this was the case you would first have to thoroughly clean rinse and buff dry, before applying a suitable sealer for porcelain. My advice though would still be to buff dry after cleaning, even if sealed.
Hope this helps
Ian
We built a new house and moved in 14 months ago. We have polished porcelain tiles throughout in a sand sort of colour. The tiles get vacuumed and mopped (sometimes a steam mop, normally just white vinegar and water) even couple of days, as we have 2 dogs. The tiles look clean when you look directly down on them, but when you stand at the front door and look through, OMG…..you can see paw and footprint marks all over the so called, clean floor. I’ve tried a nano scrub (Aqua mix), thinking it was a wax residue left over from when they were laid, it made no difference.
I have no problem seeing footprints/paw prints providing that, when I clean the floor it looks clean and sparkly, but it doesn’t. You can’t even tell it’s been cleaned!!!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I’m at my wits end of what to do with these tiles!
Hi Karen,
This is such a common issue, I have written about it in the pst. It has to do with the nature of polished porcelain. People can be forgiven for thinking that the surface of polished porcelain is absolutely smooth, but like may things that are smooth to the eye (including even glass) under a microscope, it can look quite different.
To the eye a piece of porcelain can look solid and smooth like this representation
But under a microscope there can be small pores – which can be jagged holes and scratches like this
When dirt/contamination gets onto the tile, and this can include greasy/ dirty foot marks from pets and even us, then a layer of ‘dirt’ is deposited ON the surface of the tile, but also it gets pushed, squeezed etc INTO these tiny holes.
When you then clean the dirt away, it takes it off the surface but some tiny, microscopic even, particles can remain trapped in the micro-pores. On their own they are not really noticeable, but, just like the pixels that ,make up an image on a tv screen , when you have a lot together, and you view them from the right distance and angle etc – you can see them, as perhaps a cloudy ghost image, and it is actually UNDER or IN the surface as opposed to ON it where it is more easily cleaned.
Cleaning with a a nano/microabrasive can help – but you might also consider using a sealer designed for porcelain – basically if you can get it clean then get some sealer into those pores – you are filling them up with a clear, invisible, acceptable medium that then prevents other dirt from sitting in the pores. It is certainly worth a try.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi we had some white porcelain tiles laid with underfloor heating about 5 months ago I noticed that some of the tile had a dirty effect like marks on them that could be rubbed off as we have had grey grout I just thought it was this so I gave them a good clean after being laid and still there seemed to be theseodd patches I spoke to the tiler who said that he had sealed the tiles as per the instructions he told me to try a specific strong tile cleaner and reseal the areas however this didn’t even lift any of the marks!! He said he had never come across this before it’s really bugging me now as we paid around £3500 in total to have this floor down and now I just want to rip it up but I can’t as my other half will kill me he said we’re stuck with it now 🙁 Any idea on what this could be or how I could it up?
Hi Charlotte,
OK, I have written about this extensively – It is a well known problem with some porcelain. I am assuming the tiles are ‘polished’ porcelain? (if not then it might just be a case of micro texture grabbing dirt, if they are not polished let me know). I am surprised that a tiler has never come across this. The polishing process (where the tiles are ground flat and then polished to a mirror/gloss finish with varying grades of silica carbide grit) can open up tiny micro pores in the surface of the tile. Think of cutting the hard shiny crust off a loaf of bread, and exposing the holes beneath. These holes are really small and do not affect the look of the tile, however they can be just large enough for traces of materials, often the grout being used, to become trapped in them. Get enough of these tiny specs together, and in the same way that pixels make up an image in a tv monitor, these tiny spec can give a hazy appearance – in some cases you can actually see the specs. The problem is that the marks are ‘in’ the surface, not ‘on’ it. This makes removing it much more of a challenge.
Also often these types of tiles require sealing – but even sealing them does not always add the protection required as sometimes the sealer will just not penetrate enough and get into these tiny pores (where as pigmented water with latex and other additives from the grout can be more forcibly applied and get squeezed into the pores).
Also, some of these tiles come with a factory applied coating (for a number of reasons, including surface protection during transit and installation) but again these can be ineffective, some of them require removal prior to sealing, some don’t, either way they can if present interfere with the sealer/prevent the sealer from getting in, but they are not actually sealers themselves so will not prevent grout from getting in.
So, you can go through the motions of cleaning the tiles, then sealing then grouting and still get this issue.
Removing it can be a real challenge, and I am afraid is not always completely possible.
What cleaner did you use? Was it acid based? was it an abrasive?
if you can give me a little more information and maybe some pictures, I might be able to help a little more
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi,
I’m wondering if you can help, I had a tile floor put down in my kitchen about 4 years ago and have been having similar problems to some of the other people on the thread. It is a charcoal porcelain tile, it has a slightly polished finish but is not a high gloss tile (here are the actual tiles – http://www.thetileoutlet.co.uk/pamesa-epsilon-mica)
If I spill anything on the floor, it will leave a mark where the spill was even if it was mopped up very quickly. More recently though, one of my cats had a urine infection and missed her litter tray whilst she was ill. The place where she went now has no shine at all and has turned a very dull grey. I have tried everything to clean it but have come to the conclusion that it has removed the shiny coating from the tile. Is there anything I can do to repair it and get the shine back as it looks a mess? Any help would be appreciated.
Laura
Hi Laura,
Sorry to hear this, if, it is indeed as you describe, i.e some kind of coating or finish has been removed off the tile (as opposed to some kind of stain being left ‘in’ the surface of the tile) then you may have a problem. Recent experience with this type of tile (not this one in particular) has shown me that there can be some factory applied finish (often referred to as a nano seal, nano coating, transit wax etc) that seems to come off a bit too easily and leave a patchy appearance – I have not found a remedy for this.
My suggestion would be to contact the supplier and ask them to tell you exactly what the coating is, get them to confirm if there is some kind of factory-applied treatment, and to ask from the factory, what the recommended course of action might be (I am afraid it could be replacement tiles).
Good luck, hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian – I’d be grateful for your thoughts on my RAK lounge light grey unpolished porcelain tiles which we have on our bathroom walls and floor – they have charcoal grey grout – I don’t think they are sealed. The tiles at the shower end of the bath seem to have become a bit darker than the ones at the non-shower end or the floor, and have some marks on them. I used a squeegee on them for a while but stopped that in case that made the marks. I have cleaned them with gentle cleaner (Faren citrus cleaner) and also tried dish soap liquid, and it is a little better, but I am concerned it will get worse over time.
Do you have any thoughts please? Should the tiles be sealed?
Many thanks, Helen
Hi Helen,
OK, not easy to be 100% sure here. Are the tiles structured or smooth finish? It is no longer possible to give a blanket yes or no answer to the question of whether porcelain tiles should be sealed. It basically depends on the porcelain you have. There are so many variables. However, if when you wet one of the unaffected tiles, so one of the wall tiles are the opposite end, or one of the tiles on the floor, it does not ‘wet out the tile’ then this really suggests that sealing is not necessary. So, if you wet a ‘good’ tile and leave the water on the surface for a few minutes, then buff it dry, if the ‘damp’ patch is feint and dries out, back to ‘normal’ very quickly (within a couple of minutes) – then this would seem to be a perfectly normal porcelain to me – one that ordinarily would not require, or benefit from sealing.
If, on the other hand the water darkens the surface, and that damp patch hangs a round for 5 minutes or more after buffing the surface water away then it looks like they might benefit from sealing. The surface will darken slightly just from wetting, with this type of tile, especially the structured surfaces (like faux slate) – the water will cling and appear to wet the surface, but when you buff it dry it fades rapidly – this is not a tile that needs sealing. (compare how the tile wets out, how dark it goes, how long it stays dark, with the way that the grout reacts with the water).
It could just be, residues clinging to the surface – so, soap, body oils, a little soap-scum building up (if you are in a hard water area, like London) the water is more prone to mineral deposits and there is a great chance of soap scum (a reaction between the soaps we use and the dissolved minerals in the water). This though often manifests as a whitish grey colour.
Given the cleaners you have tried – citrus – acid based would help with hard water deposits/soap scum – but this had less effect than the regular soap – suggesting your issue could be more oil based than mineral – so I would try an alkaline cleaner/de greaser – see how that works. A soft rubber/silicone squeegee is a good idea, won’t harm the tiles and if you are regularly removing water, you are helping to prevent a build up of any kind of deposit, plus you are removing moisture which will help keep mould and mildew away.
Something else to think about, (highly unlikely with this type of tile) is if the plumbing for the shower is behind he darker tiles, is there some kind of slow leak penetrating the back of the tiles and making them appear darker – as I say I would be very surprised if this was the case here.
One last thing to consider, sometimes the opposite of what we think we are seeing is true – in that what we are thinking is dirty, is actually the cleaner of the two. It is possible that the darker tiles are actually cleaner: If there was any (albeit it very feint) grout residue left on the tiles, highly likely on some tiles, especially on any tie with a kind of structured surface, but possible on smooth tiles also), then this could be making the bulk of the tiles look artificially dull/light in colour. Whereas the tiles in the shower area, subject to frequent wetting and wiping etc may have now shed any trace of grout residue and are back to their actual surface – a long shot but worth looking at
Hope this helps
Ian
Dear Ian – Thank you so much! That’s really helpful, and I will try the wetting to see if sealing would be a good idea – but I think they probably don’t ‘wet’ as you describe above. I think your grout idea might well be the answer, and I’ll try that also – and also the alkaline cleaner.
Thanks again! Just so grateful,
Many thanks,
Helen
I am wondering if it is too late to rescue the 15 yr old porcelain tiles in my kitchen? They are Italian, cream and I would describe them as a satin finish rather than high gloss – but not really matt. I chose them because the looked so good – and could be laid close together without grout lines (which I hate)
They have been mopped at least weekly since laid – but over time they have built up a slightly shiny greyish patina. This is most visible when viewed in daylight from an angle – i.e. as soon as you walk into the room. Now absolutely anything that is spilled on the floor seems to cut through this and leave a dull mark (think water mark). The worse culprits are soft drinks – but most foods and pet accidents have a similar effect. I have tried hand washing with neat all purpose floor cleaner, rinsing well and then drying – but although this improves the appearance a bit, the marks are still visible. We have hard water – but have had a water softener installed for around 5 yrs.
Could this just be build up of all purpose no rinse floor cleaners? Or the result of two boys growing up in this room (though we don’t wear shoes in doors) Is there any way I can deep clean these tiles? And how do I go forward with regular cleaning?
Hi Helen
I would be very surprised if this is not anything more than, as you suggest, a build-up of non rinse type cleaners and residual dirt, and possibly some hard water deposits too. A good deep clean with an alkaline cleaner would be my first thought. The alkaline cleaner is important but the process is more important:
1. Sweep or vacuum floor to remove any loose dust
2. Mix alkaline cleaner as directed (I have a product called Xtreme Clean – by All for Stone, available on that big web site… – but others are available of course) – for xtreme clean I would suggest about 4 parts water to 1 part product.
3. Apply to floor with a mop, leave it to DWELL for a good few minutes – 10 for example – just make sure that no kitchen plinth boards or mdf type unit-end-panels are sitting in any water for any length of time as they can swell and be damaged.
4. AGITATE for a few minutes with a scrub brush or mop
5. Extract – pick up / remove the waste / dirty solution preferably with a wet vac but a mop would do
6. RINSE – this is a separate step, with clean water mop over the floor again – this is how to remove the dirt and traces of detergent
7. Extract the rinse water
8. Buff dry – for example with an old towel on a mop or broom – this helps to prevent water marks
This is a good procedure for a PERIODIC DEEP CLEAN
For regular cleaning use a neutral cleaner – you can use no rinse type cleaners but if you cannot rinse each time ( I know it is time consuming) then at least buff the floor dry with a towel – the more you can do this the less frequently you may need to do a deep clean.
The right mop helps – I like the blue super absorbant types becuase they actually help dry the floor most others leave the floor very wet. Also there are now some hard floor vacs around designed for tiles and stone etc they generally have rollers and a wet vac function – I have not tried any of them, and I think they may struggle for a deep clean but once you have a clean floor they may help you keep it that way. There are machines made by Karcher, Bissell and Hoover they are typically around the £200 mark an all have mixed reviews some people love them others less so.
Hope this helps
Ian
I recently laid porcelain glazed tiles and they look great when clean with much work. I use a steamer to clean them after a good hoover. Then I use a car polisher just before completely dry to which I attached a handle to buff them and remove streaks with a water bottle spray if needed.. They look magic, I could look at them all day …and then the herd of cattle come in. *(^&(^(*^(..
The grout needs to be sealed with pva glue/sealer “VITAL.”. High glazed tiles are sealed with a glaze and nothing should be put on them that you might need to remove later. I would not put High glaze down in my hall or kitchen again.
joke
Thanks for the comment – I completely understand your view. But it kind of goes with the territory; the shinier, more perfect, more pristine the surface – the more it will show every speck and mark- and so although relatively easy to clean (compared with other surfaces such as carpet for example) it can involve more work to keep them looking 100% all the time. With carpet for example, we often think they are clean – as we vacuum them regularly – but every now and then, when we get them professionally cleaned, we get to see what has been hiding in the fibres – and it can be very enlightening. But, all too often we are not bothered by what we cannot see or, so it would seem. Same thing with a wooden floor, esp. one that is rustic or older and a bit pitted and worn – it simply does not show the dirt to the same level.
Same thing goes for when someone acquires the car of their dreams, and cleans and polishes it to showroom standards, then a tree drops a seed on it, or a light shower of rain deposits a fine film of dust – or a bird… – We see every tiny minute spec on this highly polished, prized possession that has had hours of work go into making it look 100% perfect and blemish free – it shiny paint, glass and chrome facilitating that appearance. By contrast, a builder’s van, which is a tool, not a much-loved, aesthetically desirable item can be covered in all manner of dust and grime and we don’t even see it.
So, a highly glazed floor that looks a million dollars (and it is not just porcelain, if it was polished marble or the clean lines and fine finish of some Scandinavian wood it would be the same) but they will draw your attention to every spec – and worse, if you have a busy walk way and herds of folks coming in with wet feet etc then very quickly that floor is going let you know. Vs a carpet that would just absorb it all until it looks deeply ingrained and needs a deep clean – So, a technically clean floor that looks a bit dirty vs a technically filthy floor that looks kind of ok.
There are some things that can help of course – you mention sealing the grout – this is a great idea – (although I would use a proprietary sealer not a pva glue) as the grout is often porous to some degree and can discolour over time, especially of the floor is being washed so frequently.
Place a mat or better still 2 mats, one outside – this will remove 90% of the dirt and also grit (which is a killer for all floor surfaces) then have one inside, to take up any remaining dirt and wet from shoes. Clean this mat regularly. Request that people, at least people living there if not visitors, remove the outdoor foot-ware. Lastly in between washing, use a wide type microfibre flat mop, some even come with a detergent dispenser – but if not just use a dry one most of the time that will be fine but have a spray bottle containing a weak solution of a mild, neutral detergent just spray a little, on a footprint for example, as you see them and buff it away with the microfibre mop.
Hope this helps
Ian
Hi Ian. Ok, my problem is with my kitchen floor tiles….. ceramic I think, must admit they always look nice and clean in between mops but my husband has re-grouted them all as the grout was looking really grubby. It’s a large kitchen so left him to it… he did a decent job with the grouting but then just wiped over with a damp cloth. Now it’s all dry and I step about mopping it up. as all the tiles looked like they had been rubbed over with toothpaste! Thought it was all up as floor looked lovely after mopping – NOPE.. soon as dry back to looking dreadful again. every tile covered in this white film. Have mopped the floor five times so far and as said once dry back to square one.maybe a tiny bit improved but not much. Have read that 1 part white vinegar to 4 parts water may help…. what do you think. Poor Hubby is mortified!
I’m UK based. Cheers Heather
Hi Heather,
OK sounds like just a haze from the new grout – Normal procedure here would be an acidic cleaner, as long as there is nothing acid sensitive nearby that could come into contact with the cleaner (like a marble border or something).
The haze is little porous and will seem to disappear when wet but reappear as it dries, this is good news as it means they may not be too much polymer present in the grout (which might make cleaning with an acidic cleaner less effective.
So, vinegar? well ok – it might work purely because is acetic acid – for some reason people seem to think that this is a ‘natural’ or safer remedy but in the end it is just chemicals – vinegar works because it is acidic. But it may not be as effective as a proprietary cleaner based on a safe acid such as phosphoric – (OK now some people will be thinking that is because I sell one, honestly it makes no difference to me, and not too many people have several litres of white vinegar in their cupboard)
However it is a good place to start, as it can be a good test, if it works then it is telling you that the issues is indeed cement haze and an acid cleaner should fix it. As for the dilution, sure 1 to 4 might be good – start with that if it does not do anything try it 1:1 – pre wet/dampen the tile surface with water first)
If it looks like it is working , but taking a while and not quite powerful enough – come back to me and I will point you towards a product.
Hope this helps
Ian
I tried allsorts of everything and finally after 6 mts I found the solution.
I used to spend hours with every kind of mop and even a converted car polisher with a fitted handle and still got a haze. The secret for me was a super clean well squeezed sponge mop and just boiled water or even cold water sometimes.
Work in small areas first and rinse the mop every time for the next section.. Very important. Cant repeat enough Rinse mop Rinse mop in clean water before the next few tiles. Be sure to give the floor a good scrubbing first of all at the beginning. I f you get sponge marks use a wide flat mop “clean” with a water mist spray very lightly after
Recap… I should have used a pvc sealer with the grout first day but had to do it after by hand after. Again I stress keep rinsing the sponge in clean water.
Nothing else worked for me .
If you live in a hard water area such as lime or iron it will leave a film on the tile.
Try bottled water to test it out. Chemicals of any kind may damage the tiles and are not recommended by my supplier. Do not over wet your tiles because they will take longer to dry out properly. I recommend PLAIN WATER and clean Sponge mop. Using chemicals may leave your tiles patchy and damage the glaze . I have left another message on this blog
Thanks for your input Joseph, some good advice in there that I have mentioned before regarding hard water, but I do have to take issue with some of it.
It is true that hard water – water containing calcium or other soluble minerals, can leave a haze over time – I liken it to washing cars or windows – most of us understand that you have to use clean water and then buff it dry with a chamois or other material to avoid leaving streaks or spots – these streaks and spots are what the water leaves behind when it evaporates – porcelain tiles and or other glazed tiles are no different, a ‘glaze’ or a highly polished porcelain is, to all intents and purposes the same thing as glass – just like a window – an impervious, smooth surface on which such streaks and the like will show. I always recommend buffing such floors dry after washing. In fact I have written here before – clean, RINSE (meaning wash away any detergent, dirty water etc with clean, fresh water) and then finally don’t allow it to dry, but mop up the water and then buff or towel it dry. This last step removes any last trace of rinsing water and with it anything still suspended in that water, so as not to let it form a film on the tile surface – just like washing windows.
As for not using any chemicals as this can damage the glaze, well this is where I take a little issue. First of all, even water is a chemical, technically speaking – OK, I’m being a little pedantic there but there seems to be an obsession of late about using ‘natural’ cleaners like white vinegar – well vinegar is a chemical; it is acetic acid and most people don’t tend to have a litre of the stuff in their pantry anyway so why this is better than designed-for-purpose, safe acidic cleaner I don’t know. However, the point is that here, Heather’s issue is not hard water, from the information given it is a result of recent re grouting (there was no haze for a long time before) so it is cement haze we are looking at here, and plain water is not going to cut it for that I am afraid.
Lastly it would take a pretty strong chemical to damage a glaze, (most porcelain tiles are not glazed in any case, not the ones having issues anyway) something very caustic or strongly acidic (we are not talking about products which are typically available to the home owner here). One reason your supplier may have issued this advice is perhaps a lack of understanding with regard to modern porcelain tiles and the various issues affecting them, these can include:
1) Transit wax – intended to be removed – but not always easy to do, at least not evenly and doing so can result in a patchy appearance
2) Factory applied sealers and nano sealers – not intended to be removed but in some cases cleaning with standard approved cleaners can remove some of it again resulting in a patchy appearance
3) Other treatments applied at the factory – this can be some form of dye or stain applied to less than perfect porcelain in order to correct /improve the appearance – again can be partially removed though washing (even with plain water in some cases) this is clearly a sub standard product and yes I have seen it first hand
4) Imperfect finishing/polishing of the porcelain surface – a manufacturing issue that no cleaner water or otherwise will correct
That is just a few of the issues affecting porcelain tiles which are many and can be complex. Then add things like polymer-modified cement haze and localised hard water deposits on top, there is no one answer to fit all I’m afraid.
Ian
Porcelain tiles dark grey laid grouted sealed looked good until got wet now very cloudy trainer marks left printed on tiles only been down 3 weeks looks like years can you help at all please.
Hi Paul,
Ok, I am assuming these are polished? Could be that either the trainers are actually removing some traces of film that has been left behind (and this could be grout haze and or sealer residue for example. In which case what you are seeing is actually clean spots. Or, it could be a common issue with porcelain tiles, whereby tiny micropores in the surface can grab microscopic sized particles of contamination, in this case tearing off tiny particles from the trainers – (think like a microscopic cheese grater). These particles become lodged in the pores and from a distance, with enough of them they become visible and create a cloudy/hazy effect. The latter can be a nightmare to fix, sometimes it is not possible, as it is just part and parcel of the tile surface. Try deep cleaning with an alkaline cleaner (such as Xtreme Clean by All for Stone) failing that you may need to try a micro abrasive cleaner (again we have one called Microscrub which can sometimes help in this type of situation). I have even had people try car-polishing compounds and products like Bar-Keepers Friend – but you have to be very careful with this type of product and test in an inconspicuous area first.
Hope this helps a little.
Ian
Hello,
I have a problem we did polished tiles flooring
and it looks total mess.No one have told us
of the wax problem before. We did it last
September. Tried several products but nothing
worked. Any suggestions please. Thanks in
advance.
Regards
Carmen Richardson